A while back I was approached with the question whether I’d like to interview one of the moderators of Witchgrove. I gladly accepted, though the choice of who to interview was tough because many of the moderators are very close friends.
However, I specifically asked to interview Mab of Dream, who I consider one of my dearest friends, both online as in real life. Plus of course, there was the payback thing, she interviewed me a while back and it was definitely twenty-plus questions there, so here’s my chance ;-)
Who is Mab of Dream?
The blasé answer is that she's just a name, made up when one list ended and Witchgrove began, because everyone else had interesting names and I was just Jo. A name with a nod to a Goddess who shared a profound moment with me, with a pinch of Neil Gaiman's 'Sandman' chucked in for good measure. As a name, it's a useful short-cut, for example, when a friend asked me to speak to our mutual friend, who only knew me as my more feral, partying alter-ego, Matilda Mother. It was a delicate matter and so I clarified through the door, 'Matti or Mab?' He called back, 'Definitely Mab', and we both knew what he meant. The reality though is that she's me with the spirituality emphasized. It's not really as simple as saying that I've split myself into at least three personas, because they are all the same person. But sometimes I do wonder about Mab...
What makes you say you wonder about Mab?
Because sometimes she seems bigger than I am. Definitely bigger than I thought I could pull off anyway.
In the words of Hagrid: “Codswallop”.
What makes you tick?
As for what makes me tick, I think my boss and second marker on my MA dissertation called it right. She said that I'm caught in the tension between the academic and the witch. I live on the extremes always, there's never a middle ground with me, I'm either flying high or crashing low; though in debates, I'm usually arguing every bit of grey between the two sides. Mostly, I'd say that I love life and want to suck the marrow out of the bone of each new experience, but I'm not afraid of death.
If you were an animal, what would you be?
Looks at the large collection of foxes on the unit and the windowsill. Mmmm... *grin* Foxes have always stirred something in me. Each time I see one, it's like catching a glimpse of the Mysteries. I don't know if that's too mystic for quite a practical question, but I think that’s it.
How would you define your spirituality?
Celtic at its depths, Wiccan on its surface; built on a foundation of Methodism and Church of England protestantism - which still comes out in the work ethic.
History is important to you, from world history to family history. Which part of history do you find most interesting?
All of it. *grin* If I had a time machine then I'd probably first want to visit the Iron Age; but you'd never see me again, because I'd want to make the return trip via every age before and since that period. I'd certainly be spying on my ancestors, making notes to smash through those stubborn brick walls in my genealogy. What I love most about history is that it's the foundations of today. All that we are is based on what we were, on what our families and communities were. I love how it comes out in little ways, like the Black Country expression, when the sky has gone dark in the middle of the day, 'It's proper black round the back of Bill's mother's'. It was only last year when someone outside the area asked and it occurred to me that I haven't a clue WHO Bill is, let alone his mother, and why they are so associated with black skies. But you'll find the entire Black Country telling you about it.
Do you see yourself living outside of the Black Country? If so, where would it be?
Probably Wales, if anywhere, but I'd ensure that I could speak Welsh first. I totally agree with the Sons of Glyndwr on that one, that English people emigrating there en masse, then refusing to speak Welsh, whilst expecting everyone there to speak English is denegrating the language. England's done enough damage there, culturally, on top of everything else.
What is Yampy? And why are people from the Black Country called Yam Yams?
Martin's site. *grin* Yampy is a Black Country word (I'm assuming, I thought it was just English until canting with people outside it), which translates as 'mad' or 'angry' or 'crazy'. It turns up in a few contexts. Work this week has been yampy, because I've had a lot on. So yampy there would mean rushed or very fast. Or I could say that someone insulted me and I went yampy and punched him. There it would mean beserk. Or a great song started up and the crowd went yampy. So that's over-excited. It's kind of a catch-all word.
Look, you can buy t-shirts with it on.
I think that Yam-Yam started as meaning someone from Wolverhampton, though it seems to have spread to meaning anyone from the Black Country. It's because we shorten 'Are you...?' into 'yam?' So you meet up with someone and I'd say, 'Yam alright?'
I’m sure Pixie will want to know this one: Where exactly is the Black Country?
Well there's two schools of thought on that.... LMFAO!
As the video that Pixie and Dirk watched said, 'Tha Block Contrees weearevva a Block Contreemon seys irriss.' (The Black Country is wherever a Black Countryman says it is.) This Black Countrywoman says that it's that part of the West Midlands that is bordered by the A5 in the north, the M5 in the East, Shropshire in the West... maybe slightly less than that... and Worcestershire in the South. More or less, anyway. It's the boroughs of Wolverhampton, Walsall, Sandwell and Dudley.
Mostly though, it's a state of mind.
You recently heard that your dissertation on the History of Wicca will be published. Could you tell us a little more about it?
I've recently graduated from the University of Wolverhampton, with a Master of Arts degree in History. Part of that was undertaking a 5000 word project and a 15000 word dissertation. To be honest, I went in to speak to my tutor with a fully formed plan about doing these on the Welsh diaspora, particularly in my native Wolverhampton. This is what I expected him to approve. However, I really wanted to look at the history of British Wicca; Witchgrove had heard my ideas and several members had pretty much dared me to at least ask. So I did and he agreed, which was quite a brave move on his part.
Researching and writing, at academic level, in a field which is still at the pioneering stage sounds like it should be easier than treading across ground already well worn by previous academics. It wasn't. It was harder than even my nightmares could have told me. When I approached Prof Ronald Hutton, at Bristol University, with my intentions, his response was 'I commend your courage in tackling the subjects that you sum up below'. I now know what he meant by that. It wasn't simply difficult in terms of the work, though that was difficult enough, but emotionally, spiritually and all the rest. It required me to look at the Mysteries ACADEMICALLY! What damn fool does that?! I tore my religion to bits and nearly lost it; but months afterwards, I can say that my Wiccan faith is so much stronger for it.
The dissertation was mentioned on Pagan Midlands and the owner of Flying Witch Publications approached me, asking to read it with a view to publication. I sent it off and months later I got word that they want to publish it.
That is fabulous news! So, tell us, what is the target audience for this book?
My Mum and Dad.
Some aunties.
Friends.
And probably academics. It's very dry and academic. Though it would be lovely if it was read by all Pagans and anyone interested in comparative religion; anyone seeking to understand religion at degree level or any level; anyone investigating how religion can be studied; historians...
Saoirse would like to know how it feels to be an almost published author.
The most ethereal I have ever felt in my entire life. The World state in Tarot. Surfing so high that I might never come back down to earth again. The last and earliest of my dreams has just come true. You've got to remember that I beat myself up mentally after I passed the age of nine without being published, because the author of the 'Munch Bunch' was only nine years old. I've wanted to be an author since as long back as I can remember. I used to make little books for my parents, by folding bits of paper together, when I could barely write. It's all I've ever wanted to be and now I am. This feeling is indescribable.
And Tygercub would like to know how many jobs you had to work to finance your MA.
One. If you are a member of staff at the University of Wolverhampton, they will pay your fees on part-time courses through the Pathways scheme. However, I spent a small fortune in books; though I had a few of those in presents from friends and family too. I mainly haunted E-Bay for months on end or had people looking all over the world for the cheapest deals, for example, Pixie once notably got a book for me which still cost £60, but would have been considerably more without her intervention; and another time Anna went running to Powells, in Portland, for me to grab another rare book before someone else got their paws on it.
You mentioned the World State in Tarot. You do a lot of readings for others, even on list, what got you started?
Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away, I had a vivid dream. It was the sort of dream that stayed with you all day and seemed like a film you'd watched or something. The evening after the dream, I attended the Pagan Society at the University of Wolverhampton, where I was learning all about Paganism for the first time. This session was about the tarot and we were all handed a pack to look through. As I was flicking through, I came across the very card that had been in my dream the night before. I hadn't even realized that the dream HAD been a tarot card, but here it was, just as if someone had crept into my mind and drawn onto a card all that they could see. The card was 'The Tower' and the pack was the Norse Tarot.
Do you have a favourite Tarot Deck? And if so, why is it your favourite, what makes it so special?
My favourite to read is the Norse Tarot, which is the only one I've used for about ten years. (See above) I've seen some beautiful packs though. Last night, I was handling the 'Tarot of the Moon Garden', which was just delightful. I also really love the Celtic Tarot, but I can't use it. I know the legends too well, so it interferes with my reading the cards for what they are supposed to be telling me.
Do you have a special connection with a certain card from the Tarot?
The Tower, because of the shocking way in which it dragged me from zero into learning the Tarot. I think that we all secretly love the dark side, hence the amount of horror films that folk watch. I love the Tower for that, but also because it's an amazing card to meditate on. It's truly the worst it can get, so if you have that licked, I think you have the stamina, courage and perspective to cope with all the other cards in the Major Arcana.
I'm also quite fond of the Page of Cups, which used to be my signifier, until I stopped using signifiers. That's the gentler, more poetic and philosophical side of me.
You display great interest in Wales and everything Welsh. What is the fascination?
Welsh blood in my ancestry, though more than one strand; many childhood holidays in Wales; a profound love of the country, its people, our history, its landscape; and a Welsh Pagan spirituality, in terms of pantheon, which simply fits me.
Could you please explain what the connection is between your dreads and Celtic priestesses?
Tenuous. LOL Norma Lorre Goodrich, in 'Guinevere', writes that '(Guinevere the Priestess) wore her hair thereafter in tangled locks. All priestesses from forever wore their hair in snake locks like those of the blue African goddess, Medusa of the Atlantic Ocean'. (pg 194) Yet she doesn't cite this, so we don't know where she got it from, though Roman sources do tell us that, at the massacre on Mon, the Romans saw women with 'black robes and wild hair' running amongst the druids.
For me personally, my dreads have become synonymous with my priestesshood. I put them in because it was fashionable. I was a huge EMF fan and James Atkin, then Zac Foley, had dreads, so I did too. But I never took mine out again. I'll cite Goodrich if pushed, but it's more instinctual than that. I feel like dreads and Celtic priestesses should go together, hence my utter devastation when I had to grade one them that time, and my relief when my hair grew long enough for extensions, until the dreads grew back under them. But the long and short of it is that I love dreadlocks, especially on me, so I'll justify it any which way but not, if I can be bothered to. *grin*
While we’re on the subject of your dreads, Heather would like to know what kind of care goes into maintaining them; i.e. do you wash them and must you shave your head and start over if something happens to them?
If I wanted to get rid of them, this far down the line, I would have to have a grade one all over. They've been tangled too long for otherwise. I think you get about a year's grace, maybe less, then it's shaving thereon.
I've had dreads since 1992 and for most of that I haven't washed them or tatted with them really. You honestly don't have to, because after about 8 weeks, it washes itself. I used to have really greasy hair, but it's not now. I've had hairdressers ask to touch it in horrified fascination, then you watch their faces change as they announce to a dubious world that it's in really good condition. However, before the disaster of 2002, when it had to be shaved off, I have taken some care of it. I tighten the roots, so that I don't get a matted shelf of hair over my scalp; and I occasionally repair the ends too, by tightening them or cutting them to all the same length. Also, I have a moulding crème which conditions it, which was recommended at an Afro-Caribbean shop up Cleveland Street, in Wolverhampton.
I'm now curious about the tragedy of 2002 - What happened?
A friend's daughter gave me nits. You can't get a toothcomb through dreads. :-( Of course, it was only after I'd had the grade one and told folk, that several people, including the Grove's Chelle, told me that there are ways and means of getting nits out of dreadlocks without that. So a message to all the dreadlocked boys and girls out there, don't shave your dreads off without looking at all the options!
Where do you go when you want to take distance from the world and things going on in it? Why there?
It depends on the need for distance. If it's just time out, then I'll curl up with a good book or go to a friend's house, where I don't feel so exposed. But if it's a serious meltdown then undoubtedly the Black Mountains, in Powys. I just feel like I've come home when I'm there. It might simply be the most stunning landscape in the world, which, incidentally, overlooks Blaenafon and Abergavenny, where my great-grandmother came from; or it might be that I've always felt magically plugged into the mains there and spiritually at home. It's where I've traditionally gone, so it might be personal history too now, that I expect to feel cleansed, charged and quietened there, so I find precisely what I expect to find.
I believe you're trying to visit all British counties, how many do you have on your list so far and what's the first one on your 'to do list'?
So far, I've visited: Lincolnshire, West Midlands, Staffordshire, North Yorkshire, Cheshire, Shropshire, Powys, Herefordshire, Blaenau-Gwent, Cardiff, Dorset, Somerset, Gloucestershire, Worcestershire, Wiltshire, Oxfordshire, Buckinghamshire, West Sussex, London, Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire, Berkshire, Bedfordshire, Northamptonshire, Derbyshire, Cornwall, Devon, Flintshire, Denbighshire, Conwy, Anglesey, Gwynedd, Northumberland, Tyneside, Cumbria, Durham, Rutland, Cambridgeshire, Norfolk, Ceredigion, Pembrokeshire, Caerphilly, Camarthenshire, Merthyr Tydfil, Newport, Rhondda Cynon Taff, Swansea, Torfaen, and Wrexham (Clwyd).
Yet to visit are: Lancashire, Merseyside, Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, East Yorkshire, Suffolk, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Surrey, Hampshire, Isle of Wight, East Sussex, Bridgend, Vale of Glamorgan and Neath Port Talbot.
Next Saturday, Aud, her son and daughter and I are going to Hertfordshire, to visit Hatfield House, where Elizabeth I grew up; unless I can talk them into visiting the Anglo-Saxon reconstruction village in West Stow, Suffolk, instead. Also on the cards, Scott and I are going to Witchfest, which will cover Surrey. Ian has bagsied Merseyside, as he was born there; while Kate, Eric, Ian and maybe Jim are going to Blackpool, which is in Lancashire. Kate and I also have tickets in December for New Model Army in West Yorkshire. I'm a bit worried about Isle of Wight, because that's a long way to go AND a bit of sea to cross. And I'm a bit annoyed about Neath Port Talbot, because I drove through it, but it's tiny and traffic was so bad on the M4 that I couldn't cross the lanes in time to drive off the slip-road. I also drove through Bridgend, but I was looking to see the sunset and knew by then that I'd have to go that way back to get Neath Port Talbot. Bridgend is in a valley, hence not great for seeing sunsets given the sodding great ridge in the way.
You are a volunteer for Amnesty International. How long have you been volunteering for them and what is it you do for them exactly?
Since I was 14 or 15, which is when I became a member. That involved nothing more than receiving a newsletter periodically in return for my membership fee. I think it was 2003 when I became an Urgent Cases volunteer, after responding to an advert in the AI magazine.
Right now, two pregnant Syrian women, plus another woman with her baby, are in underground 'tombs' at the Military Intelligence, Palestine Branch in Damascus. This is a place where torture or other forms of ill-treatment is proven to take place. Their 'crimes' are the same - they happen to be married to men who are alleged to be members of the Jund al-Sham, whom the authorities can't find and so want to force into giving themselves up. These 'tombs' are each around 6' 6" high and long and less than 3' 3" wide and are infested with rats and cockroaches. I have Views about them being in there, so I'll write to the president of Syria, his minister of the interior, his minister of justice and send a copy of these missives to the Syrian ambassador in Britain. This is repeated once a week, different cases, but all pretty much a variation on a theme.
You have mentioned on list that you have some insecurities and/or doubts regarding your role in Witchgrove. Can you tell us what they are?
These aren't all the time, but are the ones that can get played on if I'm feeling generally a bit vulnerable. They don't all even come at the same time either. I always panic when someone thinks I'm the list-owner. Cerr has assured me that she doesn't give a monkeys and I think she even finds it amusing, but I worry that she's secretly offended and... and... and... *stop rolling your eyes reading this Cerr!*
Also, being a mod is enough to make the most grounded of us paranoid, I swear. (And I'm not the most grounded of us! In fact, if this was Pink Floyd, there have definitely been points where they should have stopped picking me up for gigs and started hunting around for Dave Gilmour to play my parts...) Last year I had moments when people angry with Cerr, or out for their own ends, were whispering a lot of poison in my ear. I was being told that I run the Grove anyway and it's denigrating me for it not to be official; or that the other mods were only using me because they knew I was a complete workaholic. All they had to do was leave something long enough and I'd just do it anyway; they were taking me for a £$%&. Everyone could see that etc etc. Which was complete crap and they went too far in misreading me anyway, because I'm really not interested in being the list owner at all... it's the job from Hell... and I have too much respect for the others. Plus they didn't know what goes on in the background. For a start, I'm nowhere near the Yahoo group. I only do the website. Thing is, it was insidious. Every time that someone was going to do something and life caught up with them, I found myself with those things in my head. It really messed with me at one point and I ended up getting so paranoid that the others had to talk me off the ceiling. I actually stopped being a mod for a couple of months at the back end of 2004, which was more or less a build up of all of that, plus MA, plus transferring the website etc. I did go loopy and Roxanne and Georgia had to keep me talking until Cerr and Anna could turn up to correct the final thing I was paranoid about. I was in complete self-destruct mode that night, it has to be said.
The only other thing I get insecure about is that I'm 'flooding' the Grove. It didn't escape my notice that the month I was away from it, the posts went down by nearly a half. That frightened the crap out of me, though Saoirse and Cerr have both said that it's because I STIMULATE conversation, not post 1000 e-mails all by myself in any given month. They're right and it's a compliment in a way, but there are occasions when it worries me, then I won't post for a few days.
